Press conference by President of the Government and President of the Republic of Argentina

Madrid

President of the Government.- Ladies and gentlemen, a very good afternoon to you and thank you very much for attending this press conference, which takes place, as you are aware, following the working meeting we have just held with the President of the Republic of Argentina, to be followed by a lunch, also here, in Moncloa Palace.

I want to say that for us it is an honour to receive the President of the Republic of Argentina, Mauricio Macri, on this State visit. We have known each other for some years now. We were there, in Buenos Aires, a few years ago, less than in this case. President Macri, as the Mayor of the city of Buenos Aires, was here, in Moncloa Palace, on a visit he made to Spain, and the last meeting we held together was at a meeting of the G-20 in China, not long ago; in September last year if I recall.

So, for us it is an honour for him to be here with us today, and it is, more so, in his dual capacity: on a personal basis and in his position as President of the Republic of Argentina, which is a sister nation and a friend. Almost 500,000 Spaniards live in Argentina today, many of them in the city of Buenos Aires. You know the history of this very well; it is not necessary for me to repeat it. Many Argentineans have come to Spain and many Spaniards have gone to Argentina. They have got down to business, both in Spain and in Argentina, they have contributed to the progress of our two countries and hence, ties of unity exist that can be seen and are absolutely evident.

At any event, the most important thing is that what most unites us today is our future. Fortunately, we have wonderful bilateral relations and I am absolutely convinced that these will be further enhanced in the future.

Let me resume the issues we addressed at the meeting we held this morning.

Firstly, we spoke about the respective internal political situations in Spain and in Argentina. I want to highlight something that we often hear in our country and abroad, which is the ambitious reformist policy carried out in the time that President Macri has headed up the Presidency of the Republic. He has taken important decisions, such as the lifting of currency controls, the elimination of customs tariffs on exports, the simplification of customs rules and tariff updates. He has managed to push through important votes in Parliament and the forecasts for the Argentine economy for this year, 2017, are much improved. Furthermore, fiscal consolidation, something which, as you know, has occupied us greatly, and continues to concern us, is progressing at a very good pace.

As regards bilateral relations, following the election of President Macri, there has been a significant increase in bilateral contacts between our two countries. Our former Minister for Foreign Affairs was the first senior official to visit Buenos Aires and returned there last year. Furthermore, the former King Juan Carlos attended the swearing into office of President Macri and the commemoration of the bicentenary of independence.

Hence, we can say that our relations, also through this State visit, following a few difficult years, have once again taken on their traditional buoyancy and today it is important that we have signed a Strategic Partnership Action Plan together with various sector agreements that are very important for our country and also for Argentina.

I also wish to point out that the decisions that have been taken on economic issues will also undoubtedly have a significant effect on investment, and clearly for Spain, which is the second-largest foreign investor in Argentina, and for Spanish companies, which have always maintained their commitment to Argentina. They are important because they will allow us to invest more and also to generate employment and wealth in Argentina.

A key feature of today's meeting has been MERCOSUR. As you know, the European Union-MERCOSUR Trade Agreement began to be negotiated back in the year 2000, these negotiations were suspended in 2004 and then resumed in 2016, thanks to the interest expressed by the Government of Argentina, Brazil and also of Spain. There will soon be a new round of negotiations in Buenos Aires and we believe that it would be very positive for the European Union to reach an agreement with MERCOSUR; this would be very important for the European Union, but it would also be very important for the countries that make up MERCOSUR.

In the end, as history shows, an overseas vocation, improved trade relations and the removal of barriers and customs duties always end up being beneficial for individuals, for citizens, which, in the end, is the ultimate goal.

We have also spoken about the situation in the European Union, principally about Brexit. You are well aware of my position on the economic situation of the European Union, which is reasonable at this time, and the forecasts for growth of the Spanish economy. We believe we will grow this year by 2.5% and that at least 400,000 long-term jobs will be created, and hence we will continue with the tonic that has prevailed in our country since the year 2014. In 2014, we grew by 1.4% and in the years 2015 and 2016 we grew by 3%. Since then, a little over 1.5 million jobs have been created and the main target is to reach the figure of 20 million Spaniards in work. That would be very positive for our citizens as a whole, but it would also be very positive for the country as a whole, because it would allow us to collect more tax revenue, and hence, provide better key public services and increase pensions.

I would like to say that, at the express will of the President, this visit has a marked economic content. I believe that the decisions that have been adopted in Argentina, which I referred to a moment ago, are very important; I believe that soon the people of Argentina will start to feel the benefits of these decisions and I believe that great work is being done there.

We have gone through, as you are all aware, a complex time, in which we also had to reduce the public deficit and undertake structural reforms. And that was tough. At the start, there may have been people who did not understand this, but history will show, as it always does, and in the case of Spain in a short time-span, that when you take things seriously and when you do what needs to be done, in the end, this all benefits the people of your country.

I wish to once again thank President Macri for this State visit to Spain. I am absolutely convinced that the decisions that have been adopted will be beneficial to people, as I said before. Aside from a friendly government, what you also have here is a friendly country. Those that are Argentineans and Spaniards know that all too well.

Thank you very much. You now have the floor, Mr President.

Mr. Macri.- Good day, President of the Government Rajoy, my dear friend, it is truly a great pleasure for me to be here, as it is for my family and my team.

You were wondering about my relationship with Spain, weren't you? I started by coming here, President of the Government, as a tourist, from a very young age; then, as a businessman, I had Spanish associate companies; then as the Chairman of Boca I had close ties with Real, with Atlético, with Rayo and with Barcelona, and hence I came here often; then as the Mayor of Buenos Aires I formed part of the Ibero-American Mayor's Association, headed up by Ruíz Gallardón, and it now falls to me to come here on my first State visit, representing all the people of Argentina.

The first key message I want to bring to you is that the affection felt by the people of Argentina towards Spain is not only special, but is also great; in reality I would say that it is unique. That is related to the fact, as you mentioned, President of the Government, of the millions of Spaniards who have come to live in Argentina over the course of history, to build a future there and to help us to build our future; and then in a second phase in which Argentineans have come here to help develop Spain. And in both cases they have felt at home straight away, and that is something key. I would say that the only "complaint" we make, President of the Government, which we find hard to forgive, is that you systematically take away all our best footballers and managers. That is a problem that we need to address and we hope to find a solution to it.

But, in reality, I am also very pleased by this working day we have had, which has been very productive, because, based on this historic affection and based on shared values and cultures, we have decided to re-launch our relations, recovering maximum trust, which is a key element at any time and in any facet of life: the trust between citizens and the trust between countries. That is what we want to make very clear in this era for Argentina in which we are starting to return to a path of normality, stabilising our macro-economics, with a clear rulebook, in which we want the Spanish people to truly feel that they can develop all these capabilities that they have in common with the Argentine people.

In reality, as you said, there are more than 300 major Spanish companies working on a daily basis in our country, which have set an agenda for the production of quality goods and services and which we hope, in this new era, will step up their participation and their investments. When I leave here, I will go to a meeting with SMEs and I also hope that a steady flow of small and medium-sized Spanish enterprises will go to Argentina to seek similar partners in our country so that, together, they can do what you have stressed time and again, which is to create opportunities for our people.

We are under an obligation, which is my first commitment, on which I hope my Presidency is evaluated, to truly reduce poverty. Argentina is a country that has everything, and this time round it will lay everything out on the table, to head up the region and to help reach agreement on resolving the world's problems. I want to reduce poverty and I want to create job opportunities, employment and, with the help of important partners, with this level of affinity that we have between the Argentines and the Spanish people, we will achieve this more easily.

What I have come here to say, in short, is that we are not only bound by our past, but also by our future. And the more challenges we face and the more uncertainties on this global stage, which you quite rightly pointed out, the more we have to commit to integration, to face these challenges together, because that is how we will assuredly find opportunities to improve the standard of living of our people.

And I believe that in this regard it is very important to stress these renewed negotiations with the European Union. In that respect, our personal relations must also prove to be a facilitator for this to turn into a specific agreement that helps us all to integrate. That is the spirit we have with Brazil, with Uruguay and with Paraguay, and I believe that this is a unique opportunity, because it can't be easier to integrate cultures that we already share, and we are all making agreements with other parts of the world, where we have a great deal more difficulties in fitting our ways of life together. In this case, it is something almost natural, so we really should be able to make a success of this.

To end, I want to say to you that I also welcome that on this occasion we have been able to take part in the ARCO art fair, with 90 of our young and talented artists, who have come here to show off that all this creative drive we have in Argentina exists to be shared and to show that in this field, the innovation and cultural creativity in our country has something to offer to Spain and to the world. I have come from there with the King, who accompanied me - in all honesty, he has helped me pass a few of wonderful days here in Spain - and to see the joy of how our artists were received, of how they were welcomed at the fair was something to behold.

So I can but be grateful, once again, for the hospitality and the warmth with which we have been received, and tell you that you will always be welcome in Argentina. Just as I invited the King to visit, I also invite you, President of the Government, to visit us when your schedule permits, and say to you that you shouldn't doubt that we will have a better future together.

Thank you.

Q.- Natasha Niebieiski, from the daily newspaper Clarín. We have agreed on the questions with our colleagues. A question for both of you. Firstly, for the President of the Government of Spain, aside from the ties of friendship and tremendous trust being shown in this State visit, I wanted to ask you what challenges, what concerns, this government still has with regard to Argentina. And for President Macri, what still needs to be done in Argentina?

Then, I have two more minor questions, one for President Macri, in regard to the letter he was given yesterday by the political party Podemos, claiming freedom for Milagros Sala.

And for the President of the Government of Spain, did you talk about or mention any joint strategy, such as in the past, about Gibraltar or the Falkland Islands, an issue which, to some extent, you share.

President of the Government.- As regards your second question, we haven't spoken about Gibraltar or the Falkland Islands at our meeting. Spain's position is well-known: if the United Kingdom eventually leaves the European Union, then Gibraltar will also leave the European Union, and hence it will not be subject to the Treaties of the European Union since its international relations at that time will be carried out by the United Kingdom.

As regards the challenges facing Argentina, I believe that they are similar to those facing Spain when we came to power, quite simply that. It is a question of getting its public accounts in order, of carrying out reforms and of taking decisions which, in the end, are beneficial to its citizens. Although, as I said earlier, and since I went through this not long ago, the first stage is tremendously complicated because decisions don't take effect immediately, but rather, quite the opposite, they take time. I came to power as the President of the Government of Spain at the end of 2011 and the years 2012 and 2013 were bad years: unemployment continued to rise and we had negative economic growth; but then in 2014, as a result of the reforms and of trying to do things right, everything changed: Hence, I see no other challenge than this.

I must say, and I say this as President of the Government, but I would also say this as a Spanish citizen, that everyone can see, at least in Spain and also in Europe, that very good steps are being taken in the right direction, and I am absolutely convinced that this will end up, indeed it is already ending up, to be beneficial for foreign credit, as you all know, but also in specific improvements in the future for the people.

Hence, I can see no other challenge than persevering with decisions, although sometimes those governing must take tough decisions; but this, in the end, is always worthwhile, above all for the people, which - at the end of the day - is what we strive for.

Mr. Macri.- Let's say, what still needs to be done? A lot needs to be done, but it is also important to look back a little and see everything we have achieved in just 14 months. Today is a demonstration of what we have achieved. And in the future we must remain committed to one key issue, which is our main challenge, as I mentioned, and which we are re-establishing with Spain here today, and that is continuing to generate confidence; confidence based on our actions rather than our words. Everything we do must strengthen our learning, strengthen our decision to make this change, as I said in the Spanish Lower House yesterday, not due to a decision by this President, not due to something made up by this President, but rather because we expressed something that the Argentine people decided through their conviction, because they appreciated that the path means better co-existence amongst ourselves, greater harmony, more dialogue and more tolerance, and the same with the rest of the world, and because we want to make progress, and because in order to make progress it is much better and much easier to achieve this if we are integrated in the world. Those are the things that we are doing.

As regards the Falkland Islands, we clearly did not speak about them, but I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Government of Spain for the position it has always held regarding our legitimate claim.

As regards the matter of Milagros Sala, yes, a member of the political party Podemos did very politely hand me a petition in an envelope. I would say that, as I said in the past, this is an issue that is in the hands of the justice system of Jujuy, which is an independent power and which, fortunately, has asked for an appeal, which has been granted, to the Supreme Court of the Nation, while a host of claims filed by Ms Milagros Sala are processed.

On this issue I should also add - I forgot this - that we have invited human rights organisations, who had doubts on the matter, to come to Argentina and they have accepted this. They are coming in April or May, and in May they will meet with the judicial authorities of Jujuy and will be able to see with their own eyes what is happening. So I hope that all these things we have done will offer some form of tranquillity regarding the fact that in Argentina the justice system works well and independently.

Q.- Beatriz Fernández, from Europa Press. I wanted to ask you both if you support the activation of the Democratic Charter of the Organisation of American States (OAS) for the case of Venezuela.

Then, for President of the Government Rajoy, I wanted to ask him if he understands why people are indignant about the fact that Mr Urdangarín, after being sentenced to more than six years in prison is free without bail, and if he believes that this indignation might be fuelled by the fact that the public prosecutor in Murcia, who has been relieved of his position, has denounced the pressure put on him which coincides with the investigation into the Regional President of Murcia.

Mr. Macri.- We have spoken about the first issue, but about matters that go beyond the Democratic Charter. We have shared our grave concerns over what the people of Venezuela are suffering, at the fact that the situation is worsening on a daily basis and that some people continue to deny what is happening there, at the fact that human rights and individual freedoms are not being respected, as we have seen with the sentencing of Leopoldo López and so many other political prisoners.

We will continue to do battle, each from his own position, to try and defend the legitimate right of the people of Venezuela to elect authorities and see the country return to the international fold and to try and make progress and resolve the tremendous problems of poverty that are accumulating there, together with many other problems. In reality, what has happened and the deterioration of the situation in Venezuela in recent months has been truly dramatic. So we hope to continue, from wherever we can, to try and promote the ideals we believe in, of human rights and of freedoms, which have been severed in Venezuela.

President of the Government.- In relation to this matter, I am in total and utter agreement. This is a very concerning matter, which is worsening daily. In fact, I agree with what President Macri has said that things are even getting worse.

In the 21st century, it is inconceivable that human rights and individual freedoms are not respected, and that people are in prison, quite simply, for holding different opinions to those people who take the decision to send them to prison. In all honesty, I hope that this situation is resolved as soon as possible. And I want exactly the same for Venezuela as I do for Spain: a political system with democracy, with freedom, with human rights, in which its citizens take the decisions that they deem fit and opportune, where they elect their own government, they change this and, above all, to see a State under the rule of law in which the law is always upheld.

In relation to the other two issues, I will always respect the rulings of the courts; there are others who don't do that, but I am not going to start arguing about whether I like some rulings and not others. They must always be respected, because this forms part of the rulebook of democracy and of the rules of co-existence that we have created between us all. Hence, my position is the one that you are all well aware of, because I have reiterated it ad infinitum. Whenever I am asked about court rulings, I always say the same, which is that I fully respect the decisions taken by the judiciary.

You asked me about the public prosecutor in Murcia, because he is going to be replaced. There was a meeting yesterday of the Public Prosecution Council where there were 35 posts that had ended their mandate, seven of which were not renewed and 28 of which were, and the Chief Public Prosecutor will make the corresponding proposal to the government, which in the end will take the decision which was adopted, by the way, by the Chief Public Prosecutor.

Aside from that, I am not going to get into an argument about the decisions taken by the Public Prosecution Council. They will always seem right to me, as will those taken by the Chief Public Prosecutor. There are others who might want to see something else but, either we apply the rules in this country or we will end up having a problem. I am obviously always in favour of applying the rules and for everyone to take the decisions that they need to take with the powers assigned to them. The Public Prosecution Council has taken its decision, this was ratified by the Chief Public Prosecutor and hence, the government has nothing more to add on this matter.

Q.- Román Lejtman, from Radio Nacional Infobae. In the same way as my Argentine colleague, we have all agreed on these questions.

For President Macri, this is a period in Argentina with discussions on equal pay rises. Today is an important day in Argentina because teachers' salaries are under discussion. My specific question is whether the government believes that it will be possible to standardise wage agreements that are higher than the inflationary rate set in the Budget for 2017, which was 17%.

For President of the Government Rajoy. Taking into account the talk regarding stepping up relations between Argentina and Spain in the future, and that Spain's support for Argentina and, in the last instance, for MERCOSUR reaching an agreement with the European Union is explicit, do you think that this support will only be subscribed to the European Union and to the investment of Spanish capital in Argentina, or will Spain and Argentina work in tandem to mobilise an Ibero-American bloc to generate negotiations with other blocs, such as NAFTA, BRIC or the European Union itself?

Mr. Macri.- Argentina will come out on top because of our capacity to create and do things, and our entrepreneurial spirit. The main obstacle we face at this time in order for all this talent, all this ability, to be developed is precisely inflation, which is somewhat disturbing as it always prejudices those who have least and doesn't allow for healthy co-existence. That is why this has been one of my main goals since day one and that is why I committed to lowering inflation drastically in my second half-year in power, something which indeed happened. Inflation in the second half-year dropped to 18% annually, its lowest level since 2008. And the Central Bank undertook to set the target at between 12 and 17% for this year.

I tell everyone: we take these targets into account. Comparisons are free and each one can agree on whatever they decide for their own sector. In itself, what the governor offered teachers in the province of Buenos Aires, which is the figure I have, is 18%, hence this is already one point higher than the target set by the Central Bank.

Aside from that, which seemed very healthy to me, since no-one wants to reduce their real salary, what has been offered is a 'trigger-clause', which means that when this level of inflation is surpassed, the difference will be offset. This is so because here we are faced with a commitment that we must all meet: the government must meet its obligation to reduce inflation and in politics, in governing, we must all help inflation to drop naturally, regardless of whether we are financing this deficit meanwhile. I believe that to be the right path. That is the path that will lead us, just as we are growing this year, to grow for the next 20 years and, if we grow for 20 years, then we will truly be close to ensuring that the Argentine people are no longer excluded. This will truly include all the Argentine people within a system which offers opportunities and progress for everyone.

President of the Government.- Indeed, one of the most important issues at the meeting we have held this morning has been MERCOSUR and President Macri has declared his clear intention, his desire, to reach an understanding with the European Union on Argentina's role as a member of MERCOSUR. Clearly, for our part, as Spain, we will do whatever is in our hands to ensure that an understanding is reached and for this to be done quickly. As always happens when you are dealing with an agreement of these characteristics, it has its difficulties, there are complex technical questions and there are those who see things one way and other who see them another way, but I believe that we are in a position, within the not too distant future, to reach a political agreement between MERCOSUR and the European Union, and Spain will clearly do everything it can on this issue.

Aside from that, you asked whether this type of understanding can be extended to others or to joint action. Well yes, always in the defence of the interests of our two countries. In fact, at today's bilateral meeting, we have firmed up our bilateral agenda in an Action Plan, the goal of which is to extend the existing strategic association between the two countries. This plan contains, among other issues, a series of mechanisms for institutional agreement at multilateral forums.

I believe that, on this issue and on any other, Argentina and Spain can collaborate to the benefit of both parties. Quite clearly, I will always fight on the issue of free trade because I wholeheartedly believe, at least this is Spain's historical experience, that whenever you look abroad, whenever you cease to isolate yourself and whenever you improve your relations with others and start relations with third parties, in the end, this is all beneficial for the interests of your own citizens.

Let me give you one fact: Spain has now enjoyed four straight years with a foreign trade surplus, something which has never before happened in our country. A good part of the reason Spain has overcome this very serious economic crisis, that our foreign trade sector went through, is because people wanted to sell abroad, people had a great many difficulties here, so they went abroad and created a true export culture for small- and medium-sized enterprises which, I repeat, has been very useful.

That is why, and I say this to everyone, because it is the experience I have had, that there is nothing like looking out to the world, going out into the world and forgetting the minor day-to-day issues, which of course must be attended to, but it is very important to try and make an effort on the issue of foreign relations and be open to them all.

Q.- José Miguel Blanco, from Agencia EFE. The President of the Government commented on the need to reach an agreement between the European Union and MERCOSUR as soon as possible. I wanted to know whether you both trust that significant progress can really be made on these negotiations for the European Union-Latin America and the Caribbean Summit scheduled to be held in the second half of the year.

I also wanted to ask both of you about a common problem that exists in both countries, which is the issue of gender-based violence, which has emerged again in the first two months of this year. What measures do you think could be introduced to tackle this problem?

And, if you will allow me, for the President of the Government in relation to Catalonia, has there been any formal request from the President of the Regional Government of Catalonia to hold a public meeting? Do you think this makes any sense, given the opposing positions in relation to the referendum?

President of the Government.- In relation to this last question, it always makes sense to talk and hold dialogue; hence, I am prepared to talk with Mr Puigdemont, as I am always prepared to talk with anyone, and, in fact, the government is talking intensely with Catalan society. Furthermore, I have already stated the issues that I believe it would be good to talk about. Firstly, we should talk about those things that truly concern people, about those issues that were tackled at the Conference of Regional Presidents; in other words, we can talk about pensions, we can talk about key public services, we can talk about regional financing, and hence about the regional financing of Catalonia, we can talk about the General State Budget, which will soon be presented, we can talk about investment… In other words, we can talk about all those issues which ultimately affect the daily lives of people. That is what we can talk about.

I believe, furthermore, that we must make an effort to avoid division in society. I believe that this is very important and I believe that five years of policies that back separatism have only served to generate greater division in society. I feel that this is tremendously negative. I would like us to also be able to talk about this.

Furthermore, I believe that it is not good for Catalonia that the stability of its regional government, even its very existence, has to depend on radical parties, extremists and those outside of the system. It is hard to understand that, in the end, a political party that stands at the elections with one candidate has to change this because an extremist party says so. I most definitely believe that things could have been done another way and I believe that, in the end, opting for extremism and paying heed to it does not hold any benefit whatsoever for citizens as a whole.

I believe that it is also very important to hold dialogue on how positive and how good it is for everyone that institutions do not only represent the ideology of those who head up these institutions, but rather, on the contrary, that they represent everyone. A government cannot only defend those with a separatist ideology, when there are many other people who think differently. We can also talk about that.

Now, what we cannot talk about is seeing how we can reach an agreement on how to break the law together. No-one can be asked to do that, and, quite clearly, much less can you ask the President of the Government of a country to do that when his first obligation is to guarantee that the law is upheld.

The issue of gender-based violence is a truly dramatic issue. It is an issue that concerns the whole of Spanish society, not just the public authorities. And, quite clearly, the whole of Spanish society is worried by this issue.

Work is being done to provide measures to be increasingly more effective. There is a sub-committee in the Lower House of Parliament, and, as you are aware, at the latest Conference of Regional Presidents, one of the issues that we raised was gender-based violence and the Upper House will also work hard on this issue in the future. And I believe that we must do this. Just today there was a meeting of representatives of various ministerial departments (Home Affairs, Justice and also the Ministry of Health and Social Services) to try and become more effective in combating gender-based violence.

And then, you have something else that I always recommend, because I visited its facilities: there is a hotline, 016, which is absolutely anonymous - if someone calls there, no-one will ever know you called - where, when anyone, any women, has a problem then they can talk about it, and they can be helped and their problems can be solved. As I said, I have been there and there are people there working all hours of the day, working very hard, with a great deal of dedication and, in all honesty, they have resolved many problems and avoided many bad situations from getting even worse.

Hence, whenever someone has a problem, whenever a woman feels threatened, she can call 016, which can only be positive for her.

As regards the European Union and MERCOSUR - that was question number 17 - I hope that significant steps are continuously taken, the problem is that the concept of "significant" is subjective. I am not capable of giving any concrete date but, above all, I will not give any concrete date until I am totally and utterly sure of when a final agreement will be reached. But I believe we are in a position to reach a political agreement in the not too distant future.

Mr. Macri.- I agree. This depends on the will of many leaders of many countries, but the prevailing climate is better than I have ever seen before, there is an interest in reaching an agreement, and I hope that significant progress is made over the course of this year.

On the issue of gender-based violence, I am pleased with what I have heard President of the Government Rajoy say because in Argentina exactly the same is happening as here: not only is the issue at the heart of our government's agenda, but it is also at the heart of the agenda of our society and this issue is being tackled with a seriousness not seen before. We have proposed specific actions together with civil society, which are related to education, prevention and assistance for victims, and we believe that this will lead to increasingly improved results. I believe that the most important thing is for us to be increasingly involved and that we never again turn our backs on this issue, because it is not a modern phenomenon, it comes from way back, but what is important is that we have placed it firmly on the agenda and taken a decision to resolve it. And I believe that throughout the world human beings have discovered that whenever we decide to address and resolve something, things change for the better. Hence, I am optimistic in this regard.

President of the Government.- Thank you very much. Good afternoon.