Interview with the President of the Government on TVE-1

Ana Blanco: Good evening, Mr President of the Government.

President of the Government: Good evening.

A. Blanco: Thank you for agreeing to this interview.

President of the Government: It's a pleasure.

A. Blanco: Today you signed the decree dissolving Parliament and calling elections for 20 December. So let's begin there, if we may. Who do you consider your main rival at the polls is: Pedro Sánchez, Albert Rivera or Pablo Iglesias?

President of the Government: Myself. I have to make an effort for those Spanish people who put their trust in us four years ago to do so again now, and if possible, for more Spanish people to join the political project that the People's Party (Partido Popular) will defend.

It has been a tough, difficult period in government. We have had to take difficult decisions; but things have changed and I have to make an effort to explain things, to educate, and to tell the Spanish people that we have a great future ahead of us if we persevere with the economic policy we have implemented over these years.

A. Blanco: Does that mean there are no differences between your opponents?

President of the Government: No. Each of my opponents will obviously try to do as well as he can, as will I, and it will be the Spanish people who will have to decide. But I won't make any distinctions, because that doesn't make much sense either.

A. Blanco: This morning you were asked at the press conference where you reviewed your time in office and in which you answered questions from journalists, and I am going to ask you again: if you win the election but don't win an absolute majority, who do you prefer to reach an agreement with? I know that you didn't answer, but it's hard for me to believe that it's a matter that you haven't discussed within the party.

President of the Government: No. We haven't made any progress on this yet. In the end, what is important is the programme. If there are elections and the result of the elections is that no one has a majority, what is important is to form a government. In other words, the worst thing that can happen is instability, a government that does not have sufficient support. This will become clear when the time comes, but what is most important for me is not one party or another; what is most important is that there must be a programme. What most interests me at the present time is the economic policy that allowed us to emerge from the pre-bankruptcy situation that Spain was in, the bailout; the economic policy that today means we are the country in Europe with the highest growth; the economic policy that has meant that after many very tough years we are now creating employment. I believe we have to maintain that economic policy.

This is the most important thing, and to the extent to which others share the things we have done, and above all, what we want to do in the future, it will be easier; if not, obviously it will be more difficult. But, I repeat, that is a question for the future.

A. Blanco: But in any event, the voters can also consider the possibility that, as has happened in some regions... The People's Party has already done this; it has reached an agreement with Ciudadanos. I don't know if it is easier to do so with Ciudadanos or for there to be a coalition as in Germany. Have you considered the possibility of coming to an agreement with the Socialist Party?

President of the Government: The easiest thing is for the party chosen by the people to govern: the mayor most voted for, the candidate for President of a region who has received most votes, or the candidate for President of the Government with the most votes; in other words, the one preferred by the people. That is the most democratic, the most sensible and the most reasonable thing. Unfortunately, after the last municipal and regional elections we saw how people who had won the elections didn't form the government, as a result of agreements reached after the event. This has happened to us in such key autonomous governments as Castile-La Mancha and it has happened in the city council of Madrid, where we won the elections and are not in power, because the PSOE preferred Podemos to be in power; or in Zaragoza, or in Valencia... in key city councils.

But, well, the best, the most democratic, the most reasonable and the fairest result is for us to respect the decisions taken by the citizens. That has always been my opinion and you will understand that I am not going to change now.

A. Blanco: I am going to return to those pacts you mentioned where there were agreements; the People's Party has been the party most voted for, but it has needed agreements to prosper and in some cases it has been asked for some conditions. Would you be prepared not to lead the Government if that was proposed by, let's say, Ciudadanos, as has happened in some regions?

President of the Government: But the fact is that what I am prepared for at present is neither to lead nor to stop leading. What I am prepared for now and in what I have to make a great effort over the coming weeks is to explain to the Spanish people why I believe that the People's Party project is the project that must continue in government in Spain. That is what I am going to apply myself to and it is the citizens who have to choose who they wish to be President of the Government.

A. Blanco: You don't want to talk about coalitions. I mentioned the possibility that the Socialist Party and the People's Party...

President of the Government: That's because it isn't the right time.

A. Blanco: All right, but I'll ask you about another question.

You have defended the idea, or at any rate I've received that impression from what you've said, that bipartisanship is the best option for Spain and I would like you to tell me why.

President of the Government: I have often defended bipartisanship. The countries where there is most progress, most wealth, where most jobs are created, are countries where basically there are two major parties and sometimes, other smaller parties, isn't that so? For example, think of the United States: two major parties; think for example, of the United Kingdom: two major parties; the same is true in Germany and the same is true in France.

In Spain I have had many debates in Parliament during this term in office and I have had to answer and reply to fourteen spokespersons. Obviously, there were parties with one or two members in Parliament. But I think that in the end, the fact that there are two major political parties, and then there are those that the people may decide on, I believe that has worked in Spain.

In Spain, in practically the last 40 years, since the Constitution was approved in 1978, the UCD has governed, the People's Party has governed with and without a majority, and the Socialist Party has governed with or without a majority. In other words, we have a system that has been good for Spain, because in these 40 years Spain has been one of the five countries in the world, no more no less, where per capita income has increased most.

It has worked. I believe that it can continue to work in the future, but in any event, what is important is what people decide and how people see it.

A. Blanco: And it does appear that new political parties really are going to be represented in the next Parliament.

You mentioned the elections, the polls, and there have been many over the last year. One of them, the local elections, was won by the People's Party, but it lost almost two and a half million votes. Why would you say about that?

President of the Government: We had a magnificent result in 2011. In 2011, in the general election, the local and the regional elections, people really put their trust in us. In December 2011 we had the best result in our history as a party; but before that, in May 2011, we won many regions where we had never managed to govern before, such as Castile-La Mancha, Extremadura and others, and many city councils. So we started from a very significant position. And then we had to govern at the most difficult time possible.

I recall that when I came to Government, Spain was on the verge of a bailout, we were called the sick man of Europe, we were told that we were going to leave the euro and public revenues had fallen by 70 billion euros over the last two years. We didn't have economic growth, we were in recession, and unemployment was rising every day.

In other words, it was a difficult situation that obliged us to take very difficult and very complicated decisions. Believe me, it was very tough, but believe me that I did what I think I had to do, and look, three and a half years later, when I say "we are the country in Europe that is growing most, the country in Europe where most jobs are being created," I'm satisfied; but, of course, in the end people don't understand difficult decisions and what I have to explain, and dedicate a lot of time to now, is why we did that and what the results have been.

A. Blanco: You mentioned it this morning at the press conference you gave as another of the issues that probably has affected this election result: corruption. A few days ago you said that you had the impression that it has harmed you more than those economic decisions you had to take, the spending cuts. You even said that you believed you didn't act quickly enough. What should you have done?

President of the Government: What I believe is that corruption has harmed us a great deal and I believe that probably more than the economic situation itself, because everyone knew that the economic situation was very bad and that either we could take difficult or tough decisions, or we would have an even worse time, because we were at the point of being bailed out as happened in Greece or other European Union countries which were obliged to cut pensions by 10%, raise taxes... In other words, it was very tough for these countries. We managed to avoid that and now we are in a situation that allows us to view the future with optimism.

Corruption is something that does enormous harm, that irritates people, annoys them, and assaults them, and they are right to feel that way, above all when it occurs at a time of economic difficulties for many people. We have tried to take measures. We have taken difficult decisions, we have expelled from our party all those who were involved in cases of corruption, and we have passed very important laws against corruption. The latest is a law we passed that obliges all those people who have stolen, not only to be punished under the Criminal Code, but also to return what they have stolen. In fact, I was at the official opening of the office last Friday. It is a very important law. During this period the Public Prosecutor, the courts, the Civil Guard and the Tax Agency have acted with absolute independence.

So we have taken decisions that have served to improve many things, and above all I believe that it will be much more difficult in the future for anyone to commit acts that we would all be unhappy about.

A. Blanco: A market research company has selected a panel 12 people who theoretically represent - that's the idea - all sectors of society. Can we start with their questions?

President of the Government: Whenever you like.

Question from the people's panel: Mr Rajoy, do you believe you can separate the image of corruption from the PP and get to the root of the issue so that those who are corrupt receive what they deserve, whoever they are?

Question from the people's panel: Mr Rajoy, given all this corruption, how is it possible there are so many cuts in basic services, health, dependence and education? Could you give me a reason why I and all the Spanish people should continue to trust you?

President of the Government: First of all I am going to say one thing, because it's curious. I have just seen a worker from the SEAT plant in Martorell, where I was a few days ago, and I have just seen a woman from my region of Lugo, that I saw when I was in Lugo last week, opening a motorway between Palas de Rei and Gundín. The questions they have asked me are, basically, on corruption and about what we have had to do to overcome the economic situation.

On corruption, what we are asked is, basically, that we should follow through to the end. We are doing so. When we approve a package of laws that we are presenting in Parliament, we are giving a response. When the judges, the Public Prosecutor, all the institutions, the Police and the Civil Guard act together, I believe that is very positive. When people who are seen to be involved in these things are expelled from a party, obviously there is a reaction. There is no doubt that everything that can be done on this has to be done. Now, frankly, I believe that things are going to go much better in Spain in the future.

There is a second question, health and education. As I said at the start, a total of 70 billion euros of public revenues were lost in Spain in 2009 and 2010 as a result of the economic crisis and we had to make a great effort to keep public spending in check. I would have liked to build more roads and more railways, and use more money for certain other things.

In the end, we decided that you have to prioritise and what we did was, first of all, to maintain pensions. We didn't touch pensions; in fact, we raised them, even in the most difficult times. Second, unemployment benefit. It was a case of protecting people, pensioners or people who couldn't work, who were facing the most difficult situation. And then, we also made an enormous effort to maintain the great basic public services such as health, education and social services.

Frankly, at times we complain about things that happen in our country; but at times, we should also consider that we have a system that no other country in the world has. I have been in the country with the second biggest GDP in the world, in China. There is no public pension system. Where is the public health system in the United States? Here we have a health system that is among the best in the world. And it's not chauvinism, it's simply the truth.

A. Blanco: But what the lady asked was that during the crisis we have experienced cuts and she said that...

President of the Government: Yes, but healthcare continues to be universal, public and free in our country.

We have had to take difficult decisions. We have had to help many autonomous regions that could not finance themselves, because the autonomous regions are responsible for health, to pay for healthcare, to pay for the cost of medicines and to pay for healthcare providers. In fact, we have lived through a very difficult situation, and in a very difficult situation such as this one, the most important achievement was to maintain the bulk of the Welfare State, which is something of which we are very proud.

A. Blanco: We'll get back to the Welfare State when we talk about the economy. I did want to ask you, you're campaigning now, reflecting what the people want, about corruption. I don't know if you are afraid of what may emerge from the corruption cases that are out there - Luis Bárcenas, "Gürtel", "Púnica", Rodrigo Rato; of what may emerge in the coming days.

President: Not at all, and whatever does emerge, I will act in precisely the same way as I have done so far. The courts will take the decisions they have to take, and of course they will have the full and absolute support of the Government.

Question from the people's panel: Mr Rajoy, why during your term in office have you granted so few interviews and have appeared via the plasma screen?

A. Blanco: That is a complaint that has been made a number of times for the last two years, perhaps.

President of the Government: Above all by journalists, no?

A. Blanco: This isn't a journalist.

President of the Government: I know, I realise that. I had to dedicate the first part of our term in office to trying to deal with what we had before us. It was a time... The year 2012 was devastating. You're probably very unlikely to find such a tough, such a difficult and such a complicated year as 2012 in Spain.

Spain was on the point of being rescued, with all that means. We had to take very difficult decisions...

A. Blanco: Yes, but perhaps that distance you established, as this lady said in her question about the plasma screen, in an expression that has entered the popular vocabulary... perhaps what that has done is to distance the citizens...

President of the Government: Well, that may be so. In fact, in the last tow years I have had more opportunities to give interviews. More than 100 appearances is not bad in this last period in office. Since the summer it is the third time that I have been on TV and I have given quite a few press conferences, one this very morning.

It's true that in the first part of our term in office the priority was what it was, and the priority was to avoid bankruptcy, it was to avoid the bailout and to turn around a situation that was not easy.

A. Blanco: You have told me a number of times that you want to convince the people that you have to continue to be the President of the Government. We have been in a pre-campaign situation for some time, and in fact, and the election campaign begins on 4 December. Is José María Aznar going to take part in the People's Party campaign?

President of the Government: Well, I don't know if he is going to take part. Mr Aznar is an active member of the People's Party and he is its honorary president, and if he wants to do so, he will.

A. Blanco: Would you like him to?

President of the Government: I think it would be a good thing. He is an important asset for the party.

Question from the people's panel: I am from Madrid and I have strong links with Catalonia. My question for Mr Rajoy is: Do you believe you have built the bridges required to listen to the Catalans? From now on, how will you work on building understanding?

President of the Government: First, Catalonia is very multi-faceted, as is the whole of Spain. It is so multi-faceted - and I'm only talking from the political point of view - that there are seven or eight political parties in the Catalan Parliament. I don't think you're likely to find a regional Parliament with so many political parties.

So Catalonia is multi-faceted and Mr García Albiol, the general secretary of the People's Party of Catalonia, is not the same as Mr Mas, or as the President of CUP, or the President of Podemos. In other words, Catalonia is very multi-faceted, there are very different people and the people I have got in touch with, I have had to talk with, because it was my obligation, is with the Regional Government of Catalonia. I have never refused dialogue; never, when he has asked to see me, have I refused to see the President of the Catalan Government, never, and he can't deny that.

I have only refused one thing, which is to dispose of something that isn't mine. People who live in one part of Spain can't decide what Spain is; that is something that has to be decided by all the people of Spain, because that is what our Constitution says and that is what happens in the rest of the world. So the right to decide is for all the Spanish people and not one part of them. Having said that, I continue to be as open as I have always been, to talk about everything; and we have had to help the Government of Catalonia on many occasions during this term in office, as it was and is in very serious economic difficulties.

A. Blanco: There is still no President in Catalonia. When there is, are you going to take the initiative, are you going to call him or are you going to wait for him to call you?

President of the Government: I have nothing against calling him. I have done so many times, and he has called me; but I think it's a question of procedure. I believe you have to talk, but I have always made the limits to dialogue very clear. I am the President of the Government of Spain, and I will not do anything that goes against the unity of Spain. What's more, I will do everything to ensure that Spain, which is the oldest country in Europe, continues to be so for centuries to come.

A. Blanco: In recent months, it's fair to say, a number of international leaders have talked about Catalonia. Do you believe that something could be done in the political arena or only through judicial means? I know that's not your responsibility, but...

President of the Government: I believe that you have to do it basically in the political arena. But the fact is that everyone is obliged to comply with the law; you, I and everyone who is listening to us.

A. Blanco: But do you see options for the political arena at this time?

President of the Government: I believe that Catalonia is enormously multi-faceted. I see options of moving forward in the political arena, but I repeat, there are people who have an opinion who want to become independent from Spain, separate from it, and there are many others, the majority in Catalonia, who do not want to do so. I of course am more in agreement with these people.

So dialogue, as much as possible. But doing away with national unity, national sovereignty and the equality of the Spanish people is something that is the responsibility of all the Spanish people and thus all of them should be consulted.

A. Blanco: In what circumstances could one contemplate a measure that is extreme and that has never been taken, I mean the suspension of the autonomy?

President of the Government: What has to be done is to have sufficient intelligence, a deft touch and skill to avoid reaching the point you are referring to.

A. Blanco: This morning you have talked a lot about the economy, and in this interview we are having now you have mentioned the economic situation in Spain a number of times. The EPA (the Labour Force Survey), the last EPA, revealed a drop in unemployment which, for the first time, put the number of unemployed at under five million; but the unemployment rate is still above 20% and you have insisted this morning that your main concern continues to be jobs.

President of the Government: My main concern and my main goal for the next four years is employment, and what we have to do in the next four years and what can be done is to create two million jobs so that there are twenty million Spanish people working. That can be done, because it means creating 500,000 jobs every year and this year alone, in 2015, we are going to create 600,000; last year, in 2014, the figure was 440,000. That is why it is so important and therefore fundamental not to implement the wrong economic policy, not to do a U-turn on the measures that have been taken during this term in office.

Look, when we manage to create these jobs, it will be because there is more economic activity, the government will collect more revenues and we will be able to improve pensions. Pensions are paid by those who are paying into the Social Security system. The more people who are working and paying into the Social Security system, the better pensions will be. And the more people are paying taxes, the better health, better education and better social services there will be.

So employment is the main goal. It is what we have to dedicate ourselves to intensely in the next four years now that we have finally turned the corner. Look, Ana, in the four years before we came to Government 3,400,000 jobs were lost in Spain. That is atrocious and that was what led us to lose 70 billion euros in revenue and that is what left us at the brink of bankruptcy.

It has been very difficult, it has been very tough, but we still have to continue to make a great effort. That is why it is key, and I will insist on this ad nauseam, not to change an economic policy that has proved very positive and that now puts us in a leading position in terms of growth in the whole of Europe. In fact, who would have said three years ago, that Spain, from being the sick man of Europe, would now be the country that is growing most!

A. Blanco: Together with these figures I would like to recall others that are also reflected by the EPA, such as the case of youth unemployment, which is still very high, at 48%; the number of long-term unemployed has also grown and the trade unions point to another fact, which is that the jobs that are being created are temporary. You talk about the creation of new jobs. Do we have to change the model of production to create more stable jobs?

President of the Government: Let's see. Spain is the second country in the European Union that has created more permanent employment this year, the second. In Spain there are a great number of temporary jobs because there are some sectors where this is inevitable. Think of the hotels that only open for a certain time.

A. Blanco: And are we going to rely on this in the future? Is this our economic model?

President of the Government: Some 76% of the jobs in Spain are with permanent contracts, 76%. There are substantially more permanent jobs now than in 2007, which was the highest point for the Spanish economy. It's clear that we have to continue to make an effort for this to be the case; but we also have to be aware that there are jobs that are temporary by their very nature.

You have given some figures that are important; long-term unemployment, youth unemployment, female unemployment, all these figures have improved a great deal in recent times; that is what has improved the most.

A. Blanco: Youth unemployment has not improved much.

President of the Government: It has improved, Ana, it has improved, it has. It's clear that we still have to continue, that there is a great deal to do; but if you compare the situation with that at the end of 2011, with December 2011, when we took on the responsibility of government, things have changed and have changed substantially. Is there still a lot to do? Yes, there is. Do we still have to persevere, work and dedicate all our energy to it? Yes, we do. But when things improve, I believe it is good to make a fair judgment and an objective analysis, among other things because everthing else is worthless.

Question from the people's panel: Mr Mariano Rajoy, will there be urgent measures with the labour reform law for precarious and abusive contracts?

President of the Government: Yes, that is a question...

A. Blanco: Yes, it's related to what we were talking about before.

President of the Government: ...that is related to what we've just talked about. It's clear that in Spain there are 76% permanent contracts and there are many temporary contracts. A part-time contract has been introduced, but now most of the contracts are full-time, although there are some people who could want to have a part-time contract. It's clear that there are many things to improve in the labour market, but we are on the right path. In other words, we are moving in the right direction. We have set a path that is working. Since January 2014 - and I'm talking about January last year - until now, over a million more people in Spain are in the Social Security system. Listen, I think that's a positive fact. I think that we will be doing really well when we reach twenty million Spanish people working, and for that, there is no doubt that we have to continue to make an effort in the future.

A. Blanco: Going back to what this lady said, I would like to talk with you about other figures that come from the European Union Statistical Office, Eurostat, which talked about the risk of poverty in the different countries, and in the case of Spain it put the figure at 29%. And some NGOs say that some of the new poor actually have jobs. How do you face this problem that is out there?

President of the Government: I have seen some of the Eurostat figures. I've seen a figure that is very important, the fall of 10 points in the threat of poverty among people aged over 65. That is also a very positive fact.

Look, Spain is not a perfect country, but we are among the most important countries in the world and with the highest standard of living. In Spain there are 1,700,000 foreigners registered in the Social Security system, foreign people who have come here to earn their living, and who earn it decently: 1,700,000 people. That doesn't happen in many countries in the European Union, or in the world. We are the European Union country, from among the larger ones, with the highest percentage of foreign people working, working and forming part of the Social Security system. Is it clear that we have to improve? Yes. Is it clear that many other things have to be done? Yes. But look, Spain is a country that this year received 75 million tourists, the second highest figure in the world. For people who study under the Erasmus programme, Spain is the most popular country. We have healthcare, we have education...

A. Blanco: These figures are all well and good, but you haven't answered these people, and they exist.

President of the Government: They exist, of course, but sometimes we are too hard on ourselves. The point is... Look, let's be fair in the analysis. Let's not only look at what is not working in the way we would all like it to work. We're not perfect, hardly anyone is; but what is important is to recognise that we are moving in the right direction, that we know what we have to do and that we are going to do it in the near future.

Question from the people's panel: Mr Rajoy, what would you be capable of doing for the farmers of this country, with the prices for their products so low, and the huge price difference in products until they reach the consumers?

Question from the people's panel: Mr Rajoy, if we are a strategic sector, if you need a farmer every day in your life, why are we being sold out to major multinationals? What type of policy, if you are the next President of the Government, will you implement to change this situation?

President of the Government: Agriculture and livestock farming is a very important sector for our country. Sometimes people don't realise it but look, we were always told, "a country based on construction and tourism..." No. Spain is now exporting more than ever in its history. What we export most are capital goods, which is important; but then there are three sectors that vie for second place: the car industry, which is key, very important for our country; chemicals and the agro-food sector, which last year had exports of 40 billion euros, which is obviously a very significant amount for the Spanish economy.

We have fought hard for agriculture, I believe with good results: 47 billion euros in the CAP. It is a subject that concerns me and is very important to me. A short while ago I was in Mora, in Toledo, at an olive oil cooperative; and not long ago I was in Vélez Málaga, in a fruit cooperative. I've been to Almeria often; I've been to Badajoz; I've been to Cuenca, where they have the garlic in Las Pedroñeras; and a short while ago, I also went to El Espinar, where they have the biscuits, in Segovia.

It is a very important sector for our country. The problem that is being raised is that at times, after the producer there is the industry, and then there is the distributor, and obviously, what the producer charges is not the same as what the consumers pay by the time it reaches the distributor.

This summer we have had a major problem with the price of milk. I was in Órdenes, which is a town in the province of La Coruña, and they presented this question to me. We have taken some decisions that have undoubtedly been important with respect to this question. This is not an issue that has arisen today, it is an issue that goes back some time; but we have also passed a law and we have said to people "you have to negotiate from a position of strength." The fact that there are cooperatives is very important. It's not the same to negotiate on your own with a distributor as to negotiate with a cooperative or with fifteen cooperatives who each have 150 or 200 members.

So there is strength in union and it is very important that the agricultural sector, which has improved a great deal and is already working in this direction, continue working, because I repeat it is key for the Spanish economy and has an enormous future in our country.

A. Blanco: I think I understand you to mean that it is not only going to be construction and tourism, as you have mentioned.

President of the Government: Of course. These are some of the clichés that some people mention. There are many different things in Spain.

Question from the people's panel: Mr Rajoy, in Spain there are more than three million self-employed who generate nearly 2 million jobs. It is the most stable sector in the Spanish economy. Does the People's Party have any project or emergency plan to boost our sector? And if that is the case, when and how will you implement it?

President of the Government: Small businesses have been one of the economic sectors to suffer most from the crisis in recent years; but the truth is that, as with so many other indicators and realities in our economy, it has improved and is improving, and has been recovering recently.

We have made a major effort to help the self-employed and to help small and medium-sized enterprises. We have implemented the Entrepreneurship Act, we have set up the Youth Guarantee Plan, we have established major credits for Social Security contributions, a flat rate of fifty euros, and we have made the first 500 euros of income free of contributions. I think that in the end the small and medium-sized enterprises and the self-employed have been a decisive part of the economic recovery that our country has been experiencing recently.

I have met a number of times with self-employed workers and SMEs. Revenues, meaning what small and medium-sized enterprises and the self-employed in our country are paying into the public coffers, for the Spanish public services, are increasing a great deal, they are improving a lot. Without doubt this is a key sector and one to protect in our country.

A country will be rich and have more welfare and wealth to the extent that it has more small businesses. Large companies are also needed, as are medium-sized ones; but entrepreneurs who take risks are needed, and in Spain, or at any rate in many parts of Spain, they exist, there are entrepreneurs who fight hard and who have done so in very difficult circumstances.

A. Blanco: I would like to recall what you also said: that "all the people of Spain have made a great effort to overcome the crisis"; or to make progress at any rate, because there are those who consider that it has not yet been overcome. I would like to ask you about this budget for next year that has been approved by the Government. I don't know if you will insist that there will not be any more cuts, that there will be no tax increases in this budget. I ask you because Brussels has raised doubts about whether this budget complies with the deficit target.

President of the Government:I have no doubt that it will be met. In 2013 and in 2014 we were also supposed not to comply with it and Spain has met the target every year, at least since I have been President of the Government.

A. Blanco: But in that case, there will be no tax increases or more spending cuts?

President of the Government: No. And I'll tell you more: I had to increase taxes, I had to cut spending and I had to withdraw the bonus payment from public-sector workers, which we are now going to pay back, half now and the other half in 2016. And I had to increase taxes against my criteria. But the alternative was bankruptcy; it was a bailout for Spain. You will say: "And are you going to do all this and not increase taxes?" No, in fact we have already cut them. This year, in 2015, we have cut personal income tax, first in January and then in July. And now, the immense majority of Spanish people pay less income tax than in 2011, than on 30 December, when we had to increase it.

The same is true for corporate tax and the same is true for small businesses.

What do we want to do in the future? To the extent that public revenue increases as a result of increased activity and employment, we will continue to lower taxes; but we have already done so now. In other words, it's not that they won't be increased in the 2016 Budget; it's that we have already lowered them in 2015 and therefore in 2016 too.

And now, of course, public spending can also obviously increase. Why? Because there's money. Of course, sometimes in life things are not resolved from one month to the next. The decisions of 2012 and of 2013 are those that have allowed Spain, Spanish society in 2014 and in 2015 to create just over a million jobs. In other words, no one has a magic wand here.

Sometimes I hear some political leaders say "I can solve..." How do you solve? Governing is very difficult and you have to have a great deal of courage and strength to take decisions when there are so many people experiencing difficulties; but in the end the result is positive effects that are beneficial for the people. That is what being in government is. It's easy to do crazy things and then leave them to others who come later.

A. Blanco: I asked you precisely because Brussels and the International Monetary Fund raised doubts about it, and said that it was a Budget in which there was a risk of not complying with the deficit target.

President of the Government: I would like to say one thing: what Brussels said is precisely the same thing it said in 2013 and 2014. And in 2014 it said that we were going to have 1.2% more deficit than we had, 1.2%; now it says that it will be 0.3%.

We have always met the deficit target. Who can reproach a government that in the midst of an economic recession finds itself with a deficit of more than 9% and will leave it at under 4.5%? In four years we have cut it by half. It has been one of the major success stories of the Spanish economy and it appears something that is difficult to understand, the deficit; that, together with the structural reforms that have been carried out, is what means that today the International Monetary Fund itself says that Spain is going to be the European country with the highest economic growth this year and the second in the OECD, lower only than the United States.

Question from the people's panel: Mr Rajoy, would you make the pensions more tolerable because of the deficit we have?

President of the Government: Pensions, as I have said, are, I think, together with unemployment benefit the only item in the budget that we have not touched. They have risen over these four years in all the budgets that we have implemented; before they had been frozen. They have risen, and it is a very significant item. In Spain there are 9,300,000 people collecting a pension, and in the end when there are insufficient funds you have to prioritise. We had a debate in the Government, and I said: in the end, it is better to try to defend the position of those who are in the most difficult situation, which of course are the pensioners and the people who unfortunately do not have a job.

So pensions have risen every year, and in addition there is a piece of data that is very important: inflation, prices in Spain have fallen; according to the latest figures, by 0.9% on the previous year. This is also a very important figure and has allowed us to gain competitiveness and purchasing power.

A. Blanco: But I will add something that you also said, that "many pensions have been used to maintain whole families."

President of the Government: There's no doubt about that.

A. Blanco: And it's also very important.

President of the Government: There isn't the slightest doubt about that. There are many people in situations of extreme difficulty who have managed to survive thanks to the pensions of their older family members. And that is a clear example of what is the principle of solidarity in our country.

A. Blanco: Of the effort of all the Spanish people.

President of the Government: Yes, yes. I said so this morning.

Question from the people's panel: Mr Rajoy, I suffer from multiple sclerosis, a chronic neurodegenerative disease. So we need a great deal of support from government in terms of funds. Have you considered resuming the policies of assisting medical research and dependency? And also, have you considered launching social assistance for restoration of buildings, co-payment for medicines, etc.?

Question from the people's panel: Mr Rajoy, I would like to ask you if you are going to increase the number of PTs or other educational support professionals in the ordinary centres to provide a more inclusive coverage of the needs of students with special educational needs.

President of the Government: The first, the woman who has multiple sclerosis.

A. Blanco: She was talking about the Dependency Act...

President of the Government: Yes, about her difficult situation.

A. Blanco: ...of her personal circumstances, which are those of so many other people who are also in her situation.

President of the Government: Yes, like those of many other people. As I said before, we have a great health system. We allocate significant resources to dependency. The funds are not unlimited, as they aren't for anything; but Spain spends most money on pensions, and then on health. That is the bulk of spending by government; then there is education and unemployment, but that is some way down.

To the extent that we manage to increase economic activity, have a good economic policy and create jobs, we can increase revenues and we can allocate more funds - and I would like to do so - to dependency and more funds to situations such as have been suggested to us. Special education, what the other woman said, is key because it has an impact on what is the necessary equality of Spanish people. There are people who are in a situation of great difficulty and they need positive discrimination. In Spain a great deal of progress has been made in this matter, but clearly...

A. Blanco: She asked you whether there will be more investment.

President of the Government: Of course there will. Just as in the case of the research she talked about. R&D+I, research, development and innovation, is one of the budget items that has grown most in this Budget we have just approved, for 2016, because we now have more money. And there is no doubt that this and the digital economy, the Digital Agenda, will be one of the main priorities over the coming years.

A. Blanco: Very good. There is one question left from the people's panel, because I would like to talk about a matter that you mentioned at the press conference this morning. Let's move first to the question. I'll ask you for a headline answer.

Question from the people's panel: Mr Rajoy, I have a question for you. If you were President of the Government, would you put obstacles in the way of renewable energies?

President of the Government: I don't put any obstacles in the way of renewable energies. Renewable energies, above all certain types of renewable energies, photovoltaic and thermo-solar, had a premium guaranteed by the state, a level of profitability, of between 20% and 25%. This premium, which was collected by the person who had a "solar garden", was paid for by you and all the other Spanish people in the electricity bill. Now I have said that the government guarantees earnings of 7.5%, which is not bad. But here, in Spain, everyone is free to set up renewable energies. But the fact is that the previous system gave rise to a tariff deficit of 26 billion euros that all the people in Spain have to pay, and led to the electricity bill rising by 69% in eight years.

So I am in favour of renewable energies, but I'm not in favour of people having to experience extraordinary rises in their electricity bills to pay for these renewable energies.

A. Blanco: I would love to go into more details in the electricity bill, which is something that affects us all; but we're going to talk about something that you mentioned this morning and that has impacted all of us: the images of the refugees crossing Europe, looking for another life, an escape from war. You said that this was the main problem at the present time and that it will be the main problem for the long term. Why can't you reach an agreement in the European Union?

President of the Government: This is undoubtedly the main problem that the European Union will have, and not only in the short term; in the short, medium and long term. And I'll tell you something, because it is an issue on which I have insisted for many years in Europe and also in Spain: as long as we are incapable of helping the countries where people can't live, we are never going to avoid this, and while we have a continent below us where there are many people whose human rights are not respected and who live in situations of poverty, we are never going to avoid it.

Problems are put right at their source, and what I have proposed in the European Union is: we should use money to help these countries and try to ensure they have institutions, that people emerge from poverty and that little by little they become countries where you can live decently. Why are people leaving Syria now? This deplorable spectacle that we are seeing in Macedonia and Hungary, what is the reason for it?

A. Blanco: Because there is a war...

President of the Government: Because people quite rightly do not want to live in Syria where there is a war, where they can be killed, where they don't have anything to eat or to do. So they leave in desperation.

A. Blanco: Do you believe that the situation is the same for countries that are in extreme conditions of poverty and those that are at war? They are different situations.

President of the Government: Absolutely. For those that are at war we have to take decisions to prevent this from happening. And in the case of Syria, we have spent four years talking about one thing and another, and now we have on one side, Russia, Iran, Iraq and Hezbollah, and on the other, the United States and Western Europe. Well, just as there was an agreement to resolve the subject of Iran, it would be very positive if there were an agreement to resolve the subject of Syria.

A. Blanco: Let's hope that there is. As you are on our premises, I'd like to ask you something: How do you see the future of Radiotelevisión Española (the Spanish national broadcaster)?

President of the Government: Well, very well. I see it very well. I didn't do the things that others did in Televisión Española. I didn't introduce a redundancy plan or remove advertising. I am in favour of public television. I think it is important. I believe there are some things that are a public service and that people have the right to it, and in all the European Union countries there is a public television and I am very proud of it and very proud of being here today.

A. Blanco: Let's see a selection of images. We have very little time left. I'm going to ask you to quickly choose the best and worst moment. They are images from you term in office, and as you can see, there are different situations. We've talked about some of them. I'd like you to choose two.

President of the Government: The best moment is when the risk premium that everyone was talking about three years ago fell to a minimum, as it is now. It means we save many billions of euros that we can use for other things and that means that Spain will not now be bailed out and that Spain is a country that has recovered its standing abroad.

The best moment was when...

A. Blanco: That is the best.

President of the Government: Yes, that and when jobs began to be created in Spain and we began to grow, which was, just think about it, in October of 2013. It was the first month in which after watching jobs being destroyed for twenty months, things began to improve, and since October 2013 things have only got better. And in February 2014, the month when for the first time the number of people registered in the Social Security system rose, that also made me very happy and since then the number has been growing.

A. Blanco: And the worst?

President of the Government: The worst? There has been...

A. Blanco: I would like you to choose from the images. There are a number.

President of the Government: Most are wonderful. The succession: Spain demonstrated that it is a stable country and the succession took place without any problems.

A. Blanco: But I asked you about the worst...

President of the Government: But why do we have to be so pessimistic? Let's talk about positive things. Cameron, Obama.. Spain is a country... The Germanwings thing was terrible. I was in the Alps with Ms Merkel and Mr Hollande. It was terrible. It was a terrible moment, a really tough moment, as is always the case when we talk about the most important thing that people have, which is life. That was probably the worst.

A. Blanco: We have very little time left. The election campaign is beginning. We have seen that you have been out on the streets; we've seen you talking more with ordinary people. You have been taking selfies.

President of the Government: I always take selfies.

A. Blanco: Recently you've done so more. This weekend you've cooked. I don't know what will happen in the next few days. Are we going to see you dance?

President of the Government: No.

A. Blanco: You won't go that far.

President of the Government: No one expects me to dance. In the coming days I will make a major effort to explain to people, not so much what we have done, but what we want to do in the future and to talk about the major opportunities for this country and to say, look, sometimes we punish ourselves unfairly.

We are a great country. We have many very positive things going for us. We should be aware of it. It is the country in the world with more high-speed trains than any other, except for China. I mentioned health earlier, education, pensions... That's something you don't have in other countries in the world, it doesn't exist. We should be aware of the country that we have and the country we are. Why do those 75 million tourists come here? Well, they come here because there is security for people, because there are public services, because there is a good climate, because there is good food and because we are a great country.

A. Blanco: I understand that you are going to be talking about this over the next few days, is that right? We'll be seeing you.

President of the Government: Well, yes. There are things to be improved, but look, we are starting from a very good position.

A. Blanco: Very good. Mr Rajoy, thank you very much for answering our questions and those of the people on the panel, and being here live on Televisión Española. Thank you.

President of the Government: It's been a pleasure.